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Conclusions from Internal Affairs, a new Dev Blog from Arkanon

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Shiny McJangles GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 13:43:00 - [1] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Treylis Let's continue with the ever-consistent BoB party line. Originally by: Avon If he had done it under his player name he would probably still be on the forums, and only the people who had met him and granted him access would know the truth. So long as they did not reveal his GM identity there would be no perception of impropriety. Originally by: Dianabolic You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge? And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game? So, it's OK unless they reveal their identity as a CCP employee, unless they're dealing with a BoB member, where it's OK to admit it. Don't be obtuse. If you had bothered to read the entire post you would have seen that I had pointed out the difference between MSN and forums. If Dianabolic's mate from MSN, let's call him CCP Fred, registered on the BoB forums under that name, I have no doubt whatsoever that he would be made to leave - either by BoB or CCP. If Dianabolic's mate from MSN registered under the name, Fred the player, then only Dianabolic would know who he really is, and everyone else would think he was just a pleb (especially if we knew he was a mate of Dian). The concern isn't whether or not you speak to the devs/gm's who you have become friends over the years playing this game. It isn't even a concern you talk about in game matters (what else would you talk about to your internet friend who you met playing a spaceship game - I know I would talk about spaceships). What is concerning to the general playerbase is that you can circumvent in game channels, channels that are closely watched to prevent collusion between players and employees, to get things accomplished in game. If this is not a conflict of interest, then I don't know what is. In most companies with a conflict of interest you have to pick - the company and your job - or whatever the conflicting issue/person/television may be.
Shiny McJangles GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 14:29:00 - [2] Originally by: DarkFenix The fact is, there just isn't concrete proof of wrongdoing. I don't know where you come from, but where I live you're innocent until proven guilty. It is not down to CCP to prove they're innocent, it's down to you and the rest of the witch-hunters to prove they're not. All we have is dianabolic admitting MSN contact with devs, which in itself proves absolutely nothing. And orange wotsit (damn my memory ) claiming he would report the ISD member (who wasn't exactly an exemplary example of CCP staff, and he was fired for it. Isn't that what the mob are clamouring for? No tolerance of exactly that kind of crap? Apparently not unless it suits them) on MSN. Well, fair enough, it was an utterly stupid thing to say. But how true was it? One the one hand you've branded BoB a bunch of liars and cheaters, on the other hand the only evidence of wrongdoing is the word of a BoB member. Ironic much? I come from the samw place as you (innocent until proven guilty and all the good stuff), but there is proof. It was admitted that Dianabolic speaks regularly with GM's on MSN. Now we have another BoB player threating and ISD guy by saying he would contact some of his buddies at CCP via MSN and have him fired. The guy is fired. Then CCP, the company who may have connections with these members conducts an investigation, pfft. There is enough circumstantial evidence here for a collusion argument, and CCP's brazen threating of Goonfleet doesn't make them look any better.
Shiny McJangles GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 14:41:00 - [3] Originally by: Avon words Quote: Would you be worried if a Goonfleet player said hold on while I contact my friend in CCP to have you banned, and a minute later you were banned? Yeah you would throw a fit. Da goonies is ruining da game with all their GM's on MSN. Is it so hard to see why this would be worrying to the player base, if people could use there contacts within the game company to have things go their way?
Shiny McJangles GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 14:50:00 - [4] Originally by: Illusori Originally by: Illiya What's even more worrying is that CCP has gone out of its way to ban paying members in game and out of game because they chose to speak out and ask that the issue be investigated. That's kinda odd, I could have sworn they were banned for criminally launching a denial of service attack on the forums. Yes, a denial of service attack is a criminal act, you can be arrested for it. I think a forum ban is a pretty mild response considering they would be perfectly entitled to be sending the police around to knock on your (or your corp/alliance-mates) doors. Crimainal act oh god you are dumb. 4000 individuals posting on a message board they have access to because they pay for the game isn't criminal. If their posts lack content and are considered spam then CCP has every right to ban the forum account. The denial of service/legal claims by CCP are some of the lamest tactics used by people who don't have a leg to stand on. Please send over those Iceland police right away good sir.
Shiny McJangles GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 14:55:00 - [5] Originally by: Krugerrand Originally by: Shiny McJangles Originally by: Illusori Originally by: Illiya What's even more worrying is that CCP has gone out of its way to ban paying members in game and out of game because they chose to speak out and ask that the issue be investigated. That's kinda odd, I could have sworn they were banned for criminally launching a denial of service attack on the forums. Yes, a denial of service attack is a criminal act, you can be arrested for it. I think a forum ban is a pretty mild response considering they would be perfectly entitled to be sending the police around to knock on your (or your corp/alliance-mates) doors. Crimainal act oh god you are dumb. 4000 individuals posting on a message board they have access to because they pay for the game isn't criminal. If their posts lack content and are considered spam then CCP has every right to ban the forum account. The denial of service/legal claims by CCP are some of the lamest tactics used by people who don't have a leg to stand on. Please send over those Iceland police right away good sir. Actually it comes down to intent, if on your internal boards/ingame did a group of players decide they would spam the same post with the same content in order to make it the only issue, this would be considered a Denial of Service attack. Considering how goons did it and that CCP were forced to close the forums to resolve this, would mean you are liable. On the boards we did not say "We are going to cripple the eve-o site." In fact at no time did the site become unstable. They took it down themselves because mods could not keep up with the censorship. It is just typical CCP spin trying to blame anyone but themselves.
Shiny McJangles GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 15:07:00 - [6] Originally by: Krugerrand oh, I just checked up the mens rea, can have indirect intent for DDOS. Really, I didn't know that! This wasn't even close to a DDOS though. You know it, CCP knows. People who threaten legal action on the internet usually have no where else to go in their argument with you. You made fun of my picture on this here internet, that is slander and libel, blah blah blah.
Shiny McJangles GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 15:18:00 - [7] Originally by: Elmo Noguchi CCP posted: Quote: Verification of this can be readily found on the forums of the people responsibleùor at least could, the last time we looked. This has to be my favorite quote from the dev blog, even CCP spies on Goonfleet. Haha, my favorite is about how this was engineered to take place on a holiday weekend, when CCP would not be able to react as fast.
Shiny McJangles GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 15:54:00 - [8] Originally by: XoPhyte I see the usual alts are going strong in this thread as well, it's sad that people have tried to reduce the game to this extent. Now it appears these alts try to shift the focus from their allegations which were proven to be falsified over to the fact that devs have friends (And no, I don't have any access to devs.) I have met John Carmack once, and I do have contact with Yahn Bernier from Valve, does this mean that I cheated at Quake, Counter-Strike or Teamfortress? The fact of the matter is simply a few players are trying to hold CCP hostage with unfounded allegations and blatant lies and use these "sensationalized" allegations to try to disrupt the business operations of CCP. I agree with Arkanon as well that the ôtimingö of these events, the use of several internet sites is very telling and validates these arguments. The ôGoonswarmö and others were not interested in truly getting to the bottom of any issue they may have felt was wrong, they wanted to cause as much havoc and grief as possible. ôThe allegations investigated above by this internal affairs department will also be examined by our legal resources, as we do not intend to sit idly by while our servers, community and reputation are under attack.ö This is the best news yet, and offers hope that these unwarranted attacks from a very disturbed group of players on a ôpower tripö will come to an end. Blatant lies? If they were blatant lies why didn't CCP address them and show us this blatant proof. If they are so easily seen as lies the proof must be just as available. The fact is CCP once again side-stepped the issue that it is full of some corrupt Devs/GMs who are using their power to change the game. The timing of these events coincides with when we found out about them. Sorry CCP if you hadn't had cheating Dev's like t20 we wouldn't have to worry about information claiming that something fishy is going on. Then you delete the open letter. So we keep posting it (our right to post is given by the purchasing this account, if we were out of line then ban the forumaccounts, don't bring this "our law team is looking into it" drivel you sound ignorant). Finaly an answer is given after you had to slave away all holiday weekend because the damn customers were upset. Hey welcome to the real world CCP. Nice customer service you got there.
Shiny McJangles GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 16:07:00 - [9] Originally by: Lord Guffy Personally, since CCP will be able to trace names and addresses of those who posted these illegal images, I hope they do the responsible thing and pass those details on to the proper authorities. You are the laughing stock thinking that posting those pictures on the internet is illegal. i hope the catch those guys really, for the sake of all the internet.
Shiny McJangles GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 17:41:00 - [10] Originally by: Drebble <rant> I'm dumb </rant> The forum was never overloaded. It was taken down by CCP because their mods couldn't censor things fast enough. All posting was done by individual characters well within their rights of the TOS for the forums. Those involation of the TOS would rightly have their forums accounts warned or banned. You sound as silly as the blog.
Shiny McJangles GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 17:50:00 - [11] Originally by: Sentinel Eeex Originally by: Krugerrand Actually it comes down to intent, if on your internal boards/ingame did a group of players decide they would spam the same post with the same content in order to make it the only issue, this would be considered a Denial of Service attack. Considering how goons did it and that CCP were forced to close the forums to resolve this, would mean you are liable. I seriously adore the fact that 95% of internet people have in-depth knowledge of what (D)DoS is, how it is manifested, how to attempt to stop it, and generally - we have boatload of allaround security experts here \o/ Tell me - did they use packets or datagrams? qft ZOMG THEY POSTED ON AN INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD THAT THEY GET ACCESS TO WHEN THEY PAY THE GAME DOS DOS DOS DOS AKTIVATE ICELANDIC LEGAL TEAM STAT.

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